Curse

Crippie its Tom · Nov 25, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Okay, so I'm prolly gunna get told stuff like "GTFO we dun like ur type here" after finishing this post.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that after SF and possibly 600/smite and/or OF are nerfed, I WILL more than likely quit (PvE), especially with the UW as it is today. As a person who has been around for 4 years, logged 2000+ Hours on my main account and gotten 10 characters through at least 1 campaign (many 2+), I am sorry to say that non-gimmicks/slow builds don't excite me any more. I enjoy the fast paced action of speed clears, and have been around since the beginning of the SC era, even helping in creating some now and then. My main account is in a Guild designed to teach, create, and perfect speed clears. I WAS around for the eras of balanced UW/FoW/DoA clears, and having said that do not wish to go back to them. Without Speedclears/Farming, what would I have to do? Go through the campaigns more? Hardly any point in that if I'm not getting to a favorite farming spot of mine to improve a build/try it on a different profession. Run balanced in elite areas? No, I wouldn't really want to do that anymore, as I have said, I've been there and it does not excite me. Max Titles? Why would I max titles if I don't enjoy anything else this game has to offer? GvG? Hell yeah. I'd probably make my main account into my main GvG account and quit PvE altogether.

This is kind of sad to me, because I have never experienced an MMO type game that has been able to Inspire me like GW1 had. I loved the casualness of a low level cap, the small skill bar, the teamwork, the build creation, and the farming. I doubt I will ever experience an MMO that I love as much as I do Guild Wars, and, these nerfs (and other details released so far) have/will convince me NOT to purchase World of Guildwars 2. I suppose I'll have to go back to DotA until it too dies out (for different reasons) or simply GvG my worries away.

I kind of wish I had never picked up a copy of GW, as before It I was able to enjoy other MMO games. I was really hyped up about WAR online, but as soon as I tried it, I became severely disappointed after being treated like a god walking amongst mere mortals with the quality of this game by Anet, so much so that I am not able to sustain enjoyment in other MMOs.

All in all,

Bye PvE, and thanks for all the fish

Alias_X · Nov 25, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

So that will fix some problems... what about all the circulating ECTO that will skyrocket in value?

They let this problem stay for too long, so people abused to skills and speed farming builds enough to get a large amount of ecto in circulation and people used to a certain type of supply and demand. Shift this, and you mess with equilibrium.

BlackSephir · Nov 26, 2009, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

i'll ragequit gw if they nerf mah farming builds

If that's the only thing that keeps you people in the game then good riddance. And do me and yourselves a favour- don't buy GW2, it'll be better for everyone and especially the game.

upier · Nov 26, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

If that's the only thing that keeps you people in the game then good riddance. And do me and yourselves a favour- don't buy GW2, it'll be better for everyone and especially the game.

Yeah, because when A.Net has the option of having money vs. having less money they will go for less money.

FyrFytr998 · Nov 26, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

If that's the only thing that keeps you people in the game then good riddance. And do me and yourselves a favour- don't buy GW2, it'll be better for everyone and especially the game.

Orly? I did not realize that GW was YOUR personal playground. There is a little too much snobbery going on around here. I can not fathom why people get their panties in a bunch on how other people play a game they paid their hard earned money for. I mean really. It's not like a bunch of speed farmers come waltzing through peoples particular instances like golfers wanting to play through a hole. I agree that the buying of ingame gold and stuff that takes away from ANET's revenue should be stopped, but some people are way too touchy about the game. And more so than anything else. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME! Something that's supposed to give you an escape from the trials and tribulations of everyday real life.

I've farmed at times. I've never speed cleared, but was part of a guild that was one of the first to do FoW "armor runs" in under 35min. way back before SF. But by no means am I a High End player. I just log on and do what "I" feel like doing that day in my one man guild.

As I stated before, I was unaware that SF's current state and its effect on a fake economy had a direct correlation to my ability to pay my mortgage and my kid's school tuition. All you people acting holier than thou would do me a favor by not buying GW2 as well. Maybe then the game would be left with people just having "fun" as they see fit.

moriz · Nov 26, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

godmode builds do not belong in multiplayer RPGs. therefore, shadowform should be nerfed purely on principle. that's all there is to it.

Lishy · Nov 26, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I agree with Moriz.
While I'm in favor of LOL-imba skills like SY, SF really has no place in a game like this. It`s just general bad design.

That said, I still enjoyed UWSC. It felt like a sweet minigame and I didn't even care about the rewards.
It would have been cool if anet had a bonus mission pack mission like the uwsc roles for those that enjoy it. But I doubt that will happen.

Golgotha · Nov 26, 2009, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

There is a little too much snobbery going on around here.

New to GWG, eh?

StormX · Nov 26, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Any news on when this update is taking place? if ever...

BlackSephir · Nov 26, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, because when A.Net has the option of having money vs. having less money they will go for less money.

Oh I know what they will do.
Good thing AN never made a bad decision, eh?

Quote:

There is a little too much snobbery going on around here.

Oh yes.
IF UR NOT SF SIN GTFO
Getting rid of the source of that seems like a good idea.

Arduin · Nov 26, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Let's hope the Test Krewe will actually give some proper insights, playerwise.

Test Me · Nov 26, 2009, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

godmode builds do not belong in multiplayer RPGs. therefore, shadowform should be nerfed purely on principle. that's all there is to it.

Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?

I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*.

The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is.

Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal.

I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed.

So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc).

Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this.

It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc.

And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today.

EDIT and PS: And with each and every update they seem to make, grind is even more accentuated: the "recent rest" bar at Dhuum and UW changes in general, anyone remember equipment packs? etc.

HawaiiGamer · Nov 26, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Orly? I did not realize that GW was YOUR personal playground. There is a little too much snobbery going on around here. I can not fathom why people get their panties in a bunch on how other people play a game they paid their hard earned money for. I mean really. It's not like a bunch of speed farmers come waltzing through peoples particular instances like golfers wanting to play through a hole. I agree that the buying of ingame gold and stuff that takes away from ANET's revenue should be stopped, but some people are way too touchy about the game. And more so than anything else. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME! Something that's supposed to give you an escape from the trials and tribulations of everyday real life.

I've farmed at times. I've never speed cleared, but was part of a guild that was one of the first to do FoW "armor runs" in under 35min. way back before SF. But by no means am I a High End player. I just log on and do what "I" feel like doing that day in my one man guild.

As I stated before, I was unaware that SF's current state and its effect on a fake economy had a direct correlation to my ability to pay my mortgage and my kid's school tuition. All you people acting holier than thou would do me a favor by not buying GW2 as well. Maybe then the game would be left with people just having "fun" as they see fit.

/cheer

I've been playing GW since the date of release. I farmed UW and griffins with the old Prot-Bond build and 55hp monk. I've 600hp'd dungeons and various farming spots. And yes, I'll admit it even with the threat of banishment, I've used Shadowform!

Personally, I could care less if Perma-sins can clear/run a dungeon/area far faster and more efficeintly than a full team. In fact, I rather enjoy it! I've brought 10 characters through 3 campaigns and an expansion. I've brought my main character to GWAMM. I've completed every single elite area time and time again on numerous character classes. And frankly, the PvE content in this game is t-i-r-e-d, tired. Do you actually think I would enjoy grinding out max EOTN titles again in "balanced pugs"? Puleez!

Anet condones farming. Its obvious. Faction titles? Gimme a break! 120e+120 O'shards for FoW armor? 250 d'cores for Destroyer Gauntlets? 100 glacial stones for Glacial Gauntlets? 75e for Chaos Gloves? Most players aren't going to come by those amounts from casual gameplay. And, if players "want" them... they want them NAOW and they're going to find the most efficient way to get the required items so they can increase the size of thier epeen before the other guy. Tada! Farming builds are created.

It just so happens that SF is the best skill "when used in conjunction with other skills and/or consummables" to get the job done. As stated previously, pre-SF the same QQers were whining about whatever was the current "best build" of the time.

What are you people, SOCIALISTS?

When SF gets the nerf-bat I'll stick around to see what develops. But, if we have to go back to 4hr DoA runs... well...

HawaiiGamer · Nov 26, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?

I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*.

The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is.

Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal.

I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed.

So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc).

Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this.

It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc.

And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today.

Spot on! /clap

I can't even imagine bringing a "balanced pug" into the current UW Hard Mode and even thinking of having a chance at the end chest.

isildorbiafra · Nov 26, 2009, 11:33 AM // 11:33

ANET is genius.
Question: How do I keep an ever shrinking playerbase mainly consisting of OCD players in need of a fix intrested in GW1 until the release of GW2?

Answer: Create a semi difficult chain of quests that takes a long time to finish; can not be run or farmed; and drops higly desired "rare" miniatures/ scythe!

OCD people will do anything to get the minis even if it takes them 1000 Dhuum runs.
The rich players and the power traders have new colorfull shinny trinkets to amuse themselves with.

Anet bought themselves some time until the release of GW2 by throwing the dogs a bone.

I Predict that if GW2 release date is >Q4 2010 Anet will do the same with the FoW halfway into next year.

And now for the point i'm trying to make:

In order for Anet to acomplish this mobway i.e. SHADOW FORM has to be stomped into the ground!

I think the skill will be tweaked so as to ensure sins are'nt excluded from Dhumm runs (Wastes and Plains). Speedclearing however will be gone for good.

The upside about it is that since the new and improved UW no profession is excluded from play!

KPEATOP · Nov 26, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

For 5-30 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. Shadow Form ends if you use an attack skill. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5-50 Health.

+1

Reflect · Nov 26, 2009, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

For 5-30 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. Shadow Form ends if you use an attack skill. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5-50 Health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPEATOP

+1

Since most (if not all) SF nup-builds do not use attack skills so this wont be a nerf, but a buff -> so ill throw my -1.
...
And kreator...r u plain stupid, or u just act like that?

brainiac · Nov 26, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflect

Since most (if not all) SF nup-builds do not use attack skills so this wont be a nerf, but a buff -> so ill throw my -1.
...
And kreator...r u plain stupid, or u just act like that?

Very wrong, only thing that would still be doable is tanking. Wouldnt be able to take EBSOH or Sliver or anything like that anymore, ie no solo sins.

Gun Pierson · Nov 26, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?

I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*.

The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is.

Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal.

I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed.

So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc).

Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this.

It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc.

And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today.

EDIT and PS: And with each and every update they seem to make, grind is even more accentuated: the "recent rest" bar at Dhuum and UW changes in general, anyone remember equipment packs? etc.

Excellent post!

Just gonna add my view on farming itself alongside your post.

Since the start GW PvE has been a farming game because they've put in rare items and stuff like Obsidian Armor. This attracts a part of the playerbase that likes to farm, some casual, others hardcore. In essence, farming is a necessity in this game to get 'vanity' stuff, and without it it looses its identity.

Over the years the farming grounds in GW decreased in quality, which resulted in a few hot spots where it still pays off to farm. Together with this, the fun factor of farming itself decreased too.

Anet designs the farming grounds, the tools available to farm and the rewards. Rewards in this game suck most of the time. Why is UW endchest so popular? Because to open most chests in the game you need to buy a key and you get 1 item which often is a purple one. The importance of loot is underestimated by Anet.

Now let's take a closer look at the tools available and farming fields available

:

The solo farmer in the good old days: (troll cave, avicara, gryphs, ethins, etc.)

'Balanced' team farming the UW:

Duo Smite:

Shadow Form/UWSC:

I'm a 55/600 type of farmer for a couple of years now and it's a big part of my end game in pve. It gives me a blast when I see ectos drop and I don't see any reason to be ashamed about it. If they'll nerf it I will still play GW when I feel like, but I'll be disapointed ofcourse.

Shadow form and speed clears, I don't know...At least they helped in decreasing the price of celestial compasses to a more affordable level.

Whatever they do, Anet should not forget why we are in today's situation.

Reflect · Nov 26, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainiac

Very wrong, only thing that would still be doable is tanking. Wouldnt be able to take EBSOH or Sliver or anything like that anymore, ie no solo sins.

u know what an ATTACK SKILL is?
if not read wiki -> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attack_skill , so you do not fail further.